I think he may have finally given up. I mean independent sources of information continualy showing him up with one biased source from an AFL site... I think he got the message.

Anyway Will be off line next few days... am up in Cumbria for the Whitehaven v Lezignan CC game. Should be a cracker.

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England 3 Lions:

dallymessenger:

and i can understand you quoting the bible, you need divine help coming onto a RLWC site talking down RLs expansion into other countries when your sport cant expand beyond australia. 

dogged never responded to my comments about the state of Australian Rules Football in Papua New Guinea.  I know why he chose to not respond.  It's because of the country's preference for Rugby League..  The country adopted Rugby League as its favourite sport during the 1980's.  Rugby League is the country's national sport, too.

Says a lot about the so-called "superiority" of Australian Rules Football, doesn't it? 

 

look AFL has been trying to expand into sydney since before RL was around.  indeed AFL was taking over from RU in queensland and nsw until the people of those states saw RL and forget about AFL.

i remind AFL fans of how well the swans and lions were going before SL.

 

the collapse in their TV ratings in queensland and nsw  - a majority of the australian population must be a real worry for the sport.

its why you see AFL fans on websites like this.  they fear RL. 

Last week I decided to write to the AFL & pass on my support for their expansion plans. The full email had to be shorten due to a limit of 1000 words. Anyhow, this is what I finally sent. I am still awaiting a reply. Fingers crossed!

"Here's a novel idea, lets spend $60m on establishing a new team in Western Sydney. Yeah, that way we are sure to win them over. A low socio-economic area will embrace AwFuL with open arms if you promise to provide brand new facilities, footballs & equipment, endless supply of those tight fitting shirts & shorts, do the kids homework because they are illiterate.......The things you could do with $60m is astounding, you could buy the support of all Western Sydney. Heck, lets bump it up to $100m. The NRL wouldn't stand a chance against that sort of money!! But there is just one problem, what if the people start to see through all the hype & money, & realise the "Great Australian Game" is actually like watching a bunch of 6 year olds playing soccer.

The best thing to happen with your expansion plans is to pour as much money into it as humanly possible then watch you fall on your big noting, arrogant, fat faces when it fails because as the Beatles said "You Can't Buy Me Love".

Kind Regards

Swamp:

Last week I decided to write to the AFL & pass on my support for their expansion plans. The full email had to be shorten due to a limit of 1000 words. Anyhow, this is what I finally sent. I am still awaiting a reply. Fingers crossed!

"Here's a novel idea, lets spend $60m on establishing a new team in Western Sydney. Yeah, that way we are sure to win them over. A low socio-economic area will embrace AwFuL with open arms if you promise to provide brand new facilities, footballs & equipment, endless supply of those tight fitting shirts & shorts, do the kids homework because they are illiterate.......The things you could do with $60m is astounding, you could buy the support of all Western Sydney. Heck, lets bump it up to $100m. The NRL wouldn't stand a chance against that sort of money!! But there is just one problem, what if the people start to see through all the hype & money, & realise the "Great Australian Game" is actually like watching a bunch of 6 year olds playing soccer.

The best thing to happen with your expansion plans is to pour as much money into it as humanly possible then watch you fall on your big noting, arrogant, fat faces when it fails because as the Beatles said "You Can't Buy Me Love".

Kind Regards

Good one!

Back to Nrl expansion i think that by 2012 or around then we will have 18 or 19 clubs.

The definites

Central coast Bears

Perth Reds

The possibilitys

Wellington Orcas

Adelaide Rams

The question now is how the playing system is going to work.if we keep it the way it is teams are going to have to play to many games.So i have thought of some solutions.

Merge some of the sydney clubs

Have a super 14 style thing where each team plays each other once then year after teams swap over home and away

Split the comp up into conferences trying to keep rivals together

what do all you think would work

http://www.warugbyleague.com.au/content/news/?page=3&nid=2960&oid=

NRL CHIEF OPENS DOOR FOR PERTH FRANCHISE

In an address to the new Bartercard Reds Rugby League team’s home season launch breakfast, National Rugby League Chief Operating Officer, Graham Annersley, confirmed this week that Perth would be considered in any future competition expansion.   Annersley was in Perth in the lead up to the Reds inaugural home game against the Sydney Southern Sharks on Saturday night at Members Equity Stadium.   “The Reds have taken the right approach in laying a foundation in the Jim Beam competition, it is obvious that they have the support of the State Government and the home ground at Members Equity Stadium is also another plus, he said.   “Clearly the WA Rugby league still has an enormous amount of work to do however the local board and management are an extremely professional group and there is already an impressive level of corporate support for the Reds.   “The WA Rugby League’s decision to establish a team to compete in the Jim Beam Cup as a vehicle to progress back to the NRL is a good one and we will be watching how that goes over the next couple of years, he said.   WA Rugby League Chairman Geoff Baldwin said that he was heartened by the positive comments from the NRL as they represented a significant change in attitude towards expansion and the re-establishment of a Perth based team.   “Our progression back to the NRL depend largely on good management, corporate support and attendances to our Bartercard Reds home games.   “The confirmation of Bartercard as our naming rights sponsor in a two year deal worth around $200,000 along with other major sponsor support has helped us lay a very solid foundation.   “This weekends opening game will be a test for the Reds against a Sydney Southern Sharks line up that includes former State of Origin and Test player David Peachey along with several NRL prospects.   “The WA Reds acronym is W.A.R. and we encourage fans to come along to the ‘WAR Zone’ for the opening battle this Saturday night with the NZ v Perth City curtain raiser starting at 5pm.” Mr Baldwin said.

jim_57:

http://www.warugbyleague.com.au/content/news/?page=3&nid=2960&oid=

NRL CHIEF OPENS DOOR FOR PERTH FRANCHISE

In an address to the new Bartercard Reds Rugby League team’s home season launch breakfast, National Rugby League Chief Operating Officer, Graham Annersley, confirmed this week that Perth would be considered in any future competition expansion.   Annersley was in Perth in the lead up to the Reds inaugural home game against the Sydney Southern Sharks on Saturday night at Members Equity Stadium.   “The Reds have taken the right approach in laying a foundation in the Jim Beam competition, it is obvious that they have the support of the State Government and the home ground at Members Equity Stadium is also another plus, he said.   “Clearly the WA Rugby league still has an enormous amount of work to do however the local board and management are an extremely professional group and there is already an impressive level of corporate support for the Reds.   “The WA Rugby League’s decision to establish a team to compete in the Jim Beam Cup as a vehicle to progress back to the NRL is a good one and we will be watching how that goes over the next couple of years, he said.   WA Rugby League Chairman Geoff Baldwin said that he was heartened by the positive comments from the NRL as they represented a significant change in attitude towards expansion and the re-establishment of a Perth based team.   “Our progression back to the NRL depend largely on good management, corporate support and attendances to our Bartercard Reds home games.   “The confirmation of Bartercard as our naming rights sponsor in a two year deal worth around $200,000 along with other major sponsor support has helped us lay a very solid foundation.   “This weekends opening game will be a test for the Reds against a Sydney Southern Sharks line up that includes former State of Origin and Test player David Peachey along with several NRL prospects.   “The WA Reds acronym is W.A.R. and we encourage fans to come along to the ‘WAR Zone’ for the opening battle this Saturday night with the NZ v Perth City curtain raiser starting at 5pm.” Mr Baldwin said.

The AwFuL fan (LOL) will be pissed off about that!

Nerkbrudda:

Back to Nrl expansion i think that by 2012 or around then we will have 18 or 19 clubs.

The definites

Central coast Bears

Perth Reds

The possibilitys

Wellington Orcas

Adelaide Rams

The question now is how the playing system is going to work.if we keep it the way it is teams are going to have to play to many games.So i have thought of some solutions.

Merge some of the sydney clubs

Have a super 14 style thing where each team plays each other once then year after teams swap over home and away

Split the comp up into conferences trying to keep rivals together

what do all you think would work

Yeahg, not sure when the Reds have given themselves to come into the NRL... they are doing things at their pace not the NRLs. CCBears I think will be there.

The question of games is an interesting one. At the moment I think the way things are done is that the teams are split into "2" groups. Withing their group they play home and away and them other group just one match (wither home or away). So that gives you 14 games in your group + 8 games from the other. 4 rounds are split for rep so you have another 4 and so you get the 26 rounds as we have.

I suspect that with the extra two teams, the rep burden will not be as much on teams, so they can effectively have their rep players out for a week. This mean that the split rounds may go and we go to a two group of 9 system. so youd get 16 + 9 = 25 weeks, so if anything we may get a reduction of 1 week in the season.

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Nerkbrudda:

Back to Nrl expansion i think that by 2012 or around then we will have 18 or 19 clubs.

The definites

Central coast Bears

Perth Reds

The possibilitys

Wellington Orcas

Adelaide Rams

The question now is how the playing system is going to work.if we keep it the way it is teams are going to have to play to many games.So i have thought of some solutions.

Merge some of the sydney clubs

Have a super 14 style thing where each team plays each other once then year after teams swap over home and away

Split the comp up into conferences trying to keep rivals together

what do all you think would work

 

Another QLD team must be a priority IMO, ahead of CC, Wellington and Adelaide anyway. I would include Perth in 2012 and another QLD team in 2016. I think it's crucial now that every new rugby league club in the NRL can attract big crowds or at least has the definite potential to attract big crowds at some stage in the future. You can't include a team like Wellington, who will average 5,000 in their first season, it just won't improve the competition. CC should only be an option if a team wants to relocate their because really the CC isn't that far away from Sydney so puting in a new team their is not expanding the game but putting more teams into a crowded market. I think another QLD team would be good because all the QLD teams get good crowds and I'm sure another team would, we all know the positives of including Perth.

I think  that the NRL ca't have more then 16 teams so naturally some of those Sydney teams are going have to relocate, merge or be disbanned. It will be sad to get rid of any ot\f them but it simply has to happen.

 

Agree with you about the queensland teams kiwifan, we have the numbers and we love our league in qld, but i dont think we should worry about the Sydney teams, dont want to have another souths on our hands, look to be honest i think they have to work on there memberships, this is how they can make more from there supporters.

If we try to get rid of a club or make it merge will only create havic, they need to improve their grounds and get more through the door. Mind you with bennet heading to Sydney will get them fired up and queensland always get good crowds, so we only need to improve the sydney clubs with a bit of hard work will do this for them.

Melbourne has done well to retain Bellyacke and should be better off with their new ground being built.

So perth and also another team, like you have said we need the numbers before we expand, maybe sunshine coast, as they are growing and have a huge supporter base. I also think we could easily have another 2 teams either side of brisbane , say ipswich and logan.This would become a melting pot for the Queensland teams, so maybe it would not be a good idea, the sydney teams would suffer because the talent pool would then be consentrated around brisbane if you get my point. Alot of N.S.W and melbourne players are from queensland comps. So by expanding Queensland could make the competition as a whole alot worse. We really need to stop and think about what we might do to the comp if we keep expanding to quickly, we need perth but should we just leave it at that, with one more team and the sunny coast should be the last, after this the next team should come from expansion into melbourne.?

I did respond..,you just didn't read - go back to my previous post. (And to save anyone the effort of chiming in to call me a hypocrit, yes I'm well aware that I don't read every word of every prior inane post either - can you blame me>?...I can't be expected to wade through all the non-sequiters. all the lies and all the nonsense every time - and I think I have rightly asked some of you to forward you data and logic to the NRL and get them to explain to you why your game doesn't generate the revenue to match your delusion). 

PNG taking up RL as a sport is actually an example of an aspect of a dominant coloniser's customs been grafted on a local culture - RL was introduced into an area that presumably had no idigenous football code. My other examples are cricket in India and so on...and actually aussie rules is the sport in many aboriginal communities in WA, SA, NT, Vic and Tasi in particular. PNG is a former territory of Australia that only become independant in the 1970s - that it has an English/Australian game likeRL is not really a surprise...it is what you would expect and it proves nothing..not a thing

Aussie rules was also in PNG according to you? I don't know about that. It is news to me if it was but I think it is more likely that this is just a self-serving lie you made up, or someone else's lie/exaggeration you have latched on to and repeated, that you think proves something? If there ever was aussie rules it was probably just very amatuer and confined to expats - but even if it wasn't and PNG people turned off aussie ruels to RL who cares...really do you think that is impressive? To be number one in PNG? I'd rather be number one in Australia - as aussie rules is. You can have PNG as the sole nation on the planet where RL is the most popular code...good for you.

 http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23583626-2722,00.html

This is off topic I know but it does show just how hollow some of the bleating on this forum has been about the AFL being in a supposed state of decline. Brown is re-negotiating his deal with Brisbane Lions...he's going for a 5 year deal worth $6m - $1.2m per season. This is a continuation of his current deal worth $1.2m per season...and he wouldn't be the only $1m plus per season player - Ablett, Judd and a few others would also pull in those dollars. Can you name me one RL player in Australia, or overseas, that pulls in even half of that per season? Is there even one RL player on 600K per season - i don't think there is...whenever a bid deal is sign in RL the banner headline screams about multi-million dollar - but then when you read it it ends up being something like a $2m deal over 4 or 5 seasons.....and yes I know that SOME OVERSEAS based soccer players pull in much more than that per season before someone chimes in with that pearl of wisdom - but I guess they ought to pull in more give the populations supproting their competitions ..Aust is only a small country and economy and for its size aussie rules players get paid very well....put it this way Jonathan Brown gets paid more than Kevin Rudd...and more than twice as much as any NRL player...

 

 

What does player payments mean in the relation to the success of each respective code?. The reason NRL players get less is because of the small salary cap in place for each club, which has worked extremely well. We now have a competition where literally any team has a genuine chance of winning the premiership.

 Its great that Brown & Co are getting paid so much money and good for them, but what does it matter?. Look at the amount of money the ARU spends on its players. Matt Gitaeu was the first million dollar man of any code, and the amount of money they throw at NRL players to steal them is ludicrous, and look at the state of the ARU now. The talent pool is strecthed way too far resulting in weak Australian teams, crowds are on the way down because of this. I couldn't believe how poor the crowd was for the Brumbies over the weekend, in the past any Brumbies game would have been a sellout. And also the ARU has now posted a record loss of over $8 million dollars for last year.

 My question is, when you consider the amount of money the ARU is throwing around in relation to the state of their code, how are player salaries a good indication of the state of each respective code?.

Matt Gitaeu first?...was he pre-1995? ...i don't think so...obviously you haven't heard of anthony koutafides deal in 1995..or deals done with buckley and hird...and so on...i could go on..I don't thinkGitaeu was first - and he most certainly was behind some soccer players as well...Bosnich for one... 

player salaries may go into unsustainable territory for short periods but in the long term they are a very good general indicator of the state of a code.....if the ARU has thrown around too much dough then more fool them....they seem to be squandering world cup takings from a few years ago...AFL revenue is much more constant, reliable and at a higher level than the occasional world cup bonanzas RU receives...so your comparison doesn't quite work...  

 

 

The money Bosnich was getting was Overseas, Im talking about competitions played in Australia. Koutoufides salary was listed at $900000-$1000000, and I very much doubt Hird or Buckley were on a million dollars a season at any stage of their careers. I certainly cant find any figures to put their salaries even close to the million dollar mark.

 Actually, back in the years of Super League In Australia in '97/'98 the average Super League players salary was very comparable to the salaries of AFL players at that time, and we all know what happened to Super League. That is now two different examples of how player salaries are not a good indication on how the respective code is travelling as a whole.

People seem to forget how much damage the Super League/ARL war had on the game of Rugby League and it is still on a recovery path from those times. Even though the game is growing very strongly again I believe it will be another 10 years before we get back to where we were, particularly internationally. As for expansion the NRL already has a team on the Gold Coast, and the earliest now an AFL team will be on the coast is 2011. Front page of the Courier Mail today Shows that a deal done with the government will mean any AFL team to play on the GC will have to play in Brisbane from the Gabba until 2015, unless the pay out a $40 million dollar contract to the government. They are then looking at another $160 million to either renovate Carrara Stadium, or biuld a new one. So thats $200 million before they've bought a Sherrin.

Rugby League also has a huge advantage in its expansion plans in that it is played in many countries internationally, something the AFL will never have.

Look, im sure your reply if you choose to even do that will be arrogant and maybe even insulting as they all have been so far. But maybe, just maybe you will act with a tiny bit of maturity. I have nothing against AFL, I watched it alot during the late 90's and I still watch it now when the Lions play. There is enough room in Australia for all the codes to grow and succeed.