I haven't read all of the above posts either but enough to get jist that people are calling for or predicting future expansion. I'm sorry I just don't see it happening - in fact further a shrinking of the NRL seems far more likely in the long term.

Nearly all RLeague clubs run at a considerable operational losses - they normally rely on multi-million 'grants' from gambling revenue (pokies). Souths no longer wants this business model (and we'll see how this goes and if it can be sustained) but all the rest of the NRL are plugged into gaming revenue for survival. This financial crutch is not available in WA (where pokies are banned except for at the Casino) and there was/is no Leagues club in SA or Vic. The Storm is now, and always will be, totally reliant on News Ltd for handouts - it will perish as soon as the NRL/News Ltd get sick of tearing up $100 bill year after year.....and that must happen at some point.

So in all this 'expansion' talk people posting do not seem to appreciate or ackowledge that venturing outside NSW/QLD and setting up a RL team is a bit like trying to farm rice in the Great Sandy Desert,.....for rice you need water and plenty of it so setting up a rice farm is doomed to failure.... for RL teams you need plenty of pokie revenue and established Leagues clubs to funnel annual mulit-million dollar grants to the clubs - and you ain't going to find it in the 'pokie deserts' of WA or SA or Vic....the alternative of course is NOT to rely on pokie revnue at all (possible but far less palatable for the players) but just live off broadcast revenue and sponsorphips like all other sports must....

 'talk' of expansion to WA or SA is all that the NRL will ever acheive...it will never actually expand to these states again.....it was never going to work and the now defunct Reds and Rams prove this beyond any doubt.....and before long the carcass of the Storm will be added to the pile of failed RL enterprises....the only future 'expansion' - if there is any - is withing the borderes of NSW/QLD.... 

the expansion of the AFL through Lions and Swans was very difficult and loss making for some time - but pokie revenue was/is not relied on....both ventures are now modestly profitable (both with massive revenue dwarfing any NRL team) and during their foramtion relied on some AFL handouts and even some private funding.....but least they never resorted to pokie revenue which is, and remains, the lifeblood of the nRL...     

Dogged, i will 1st give you one simple fact why the storm will only grow and get another team in melbourne before to long, they dont just build a rectangle pitch and stadium just for the hell of it? The storm are doing nicely and the membership that the A.F.L rely on so much is now being introduced into the league system, junior level in victoria is starting to form and once the stadium is built, will also house shops and other revenue making systems for the storm and soccer, these 2 games are not going away, they are building, and the perth team will come into the game sooner than you think, the n.r.l only need to put a team in perth to increase t/v revenue, the thing about a.f.l up here in qld and new south wales is support, they only have a certain amount of victorians living in these 2 states, once they dry up so do the a.f.l funds, league rules these states and any thought of this not being the case is all talk.

The a.f.l is under attack in melbourne which is why it thinks it needs to expand, league is not under attack from loss of fans or revenue from t/v, unless the growth figures are telling us lies. League is the best game to watch, everyone knows this, so a game in perth can bring as much as a game in brisbane, because people watch, the only aussie rules games people watch up here is the lions, and only for a few games until they start to get flogged then the people ignore the funny little jumping hand punch girly game with 7 foot duffuses bumbling around tying there laces, well thats what it looks like to me? I have no idea what they are doing as there is no rules to aussie rules, they lack dissaplain.. The only people who like aussie rules are victorians, because they have had 150 years of brainwashing to help them along,,  thats there way of life just like muslims follow islam. I would not try to convert them either.,

But i dont follow them either .

League is quickly learning how to survive the new century, we have people trying new things like Crowe has done and other ideas are about to be introduced, they just dont roll over and give-up, even rugby union is trying new ways to get fans back to the game, and by having more tests played will help them, league is also persuing this area, as in 4-5 nations and world cups. A.F.L is very weak outside australia, any one who tells you differently is telling you porkies, they would love to have a international game, but they have no competition, and it takes more than a few years to gain this, more like 50 years for them just to get some country on the same wave length as they are? By then league and union will be celebrating 150 years and t/v money rocketing.

the new stadium ..so what??....this is multi-purpose and can be used for soccer, union and league...it doesn't guarantee anything....News Ltd pump in millions annually - you didn't listen to what I said...the strom have won premierships and have crowds and support as good as many NSW sides yet they have NEVER balanced their books...NEVER...and why? ...they do not have access to 'grants' from Leagues clubs...

oikee...mate sorry to say this but the nRL is a glorified by-product of pokie gambling....were it not for these wrtched machines whirring away 24/7 there wouldn't even be an nRL as you know it - it'd revert back to a semi-professional game...

The AFL does not rely exclisively on ex-pat Vics - plenty of QLDers and NSW people follow AFL...what you also seem to forget is that people from WA, SA, Tasi and NT are all also born bred Aussie rules followers - and the population of WA/SA/Tasi/NT combined basically equals the size of the inside Vic following....so when you try and describe Aussie rules as a just a Victorian game you are ignoring half of the picture....

league is not growing...as i said it is hemmed in by its relienace on pokie revenue and will never stray far from this source of funding...certainly there will never again be a team outside NSW/QLD...and the Storm are on borrowed time new stadium or not - they simply are unprofitable and eventually New Ltd will get sick of pouring money into a bottomless pit....

 oikee ...mate have you ever been to an aussie rules game??? you might like it...

 

oh and the international aspect lacking in AFL...so what...many/most posrts are not 'international'..doesn't mean a thing...and by the way if you think League is any more international that AFL you're the one telling porkies...neither is an international sport - only RL pretends to be... 

Dogged mate, the rugby league has had a world cup for a long time now, even if it is a bit wonky it still has history to build upon, and this is where the growth lies, something to build upon, where as the a.f.l has nothing and wont in the near future, if they think that world cup they hold will get a huge following then they are on drugs,

can tell you i have never been to a aussie rules game, but i have heard people say that they have been and like it, so what, its a victorian game and thats the main reason to never like the game, call me one eyed , i call it loyalty, like victorians think about a.f.l . The only thing that keeps a.f.l afloat is the crowds, look at melbourne sinking into oblivian because the crowds are sick of rules and moving to soccer, league and union, no for me there is plenty of growth in victoria , the more league we show on t/v down there, the more people will like what they see,

as for the aussie rules up here in queensland, they wont get the support because we like to support all codes, but deep down we are all league followers and thats something you cant take away as you have seen by the lions, when they are not winning the people dont bother, call us fickle, i call it boredom. The stuckture and disaplain is a frustrating area of a.f.l that annoys me.

As for the storm, they will always be there, we all watch there games and this will keep them in the comp, a crowd of 10 thousand is all they ever need, this will grow over the next 10 years, by then you will see a second team coming into the comp, and perth is in the n.s.w jim beam cup so they have support already. To think we cant grow outside our 2 states is wishful thinking, we did it before and we will do it again, no worries mate.

Just one more thing Dogged, when A.F.L can sell out a game in a hour like origin does here in queensland, come back and talk to me, maybe i might think league is dying , The game has never been so healthy and is growing just like the other codes, we dont need as much growth as the A.F.L does because a small crowd in a.f.l is a pathetic site, they thrive on atmosphere, so any reduction in numbers hurts them, and people are starting to stay away.

All the games will even out eventually, i have never been to a soccer match or basketball, why? i dont follow them, see just because someone tells me to try aussie rules wont make me go, i dont follow them.

oikee:

Just one more thing Dogged, when A.F.L can sell out a game in a hour like origin does here in queensland, come back and talk to me, maybe i might think league is dying , The game has never been so healthy and is growing just like the other codes, we dont need as much growth as the A.F.L does because a small crowd in a.f.l is a pathetic site, they thrive on atmosphere, so any reduction in numbers hurts them, and people are starting to stay away.

All the games will even out eventually, i have never been to a soccer match or basketball, why? i dont follow them, see just because someone tells me to try aussie rules wont make me go, i dont follow them.

Sorry oikee but you're on a loser there...if you want to talk sellout crowds you must be talking AFL.......the NRL wet it pants when it made over 3 million spectators in 2007 - meanwhile the AFL does 7 million....the NRL gets total crowd figures the VFL used to get in the 1970s...that's how far behind the NRL are....

and talking sellouts - if i want to go to the NRL GF i can easily go; the tickets are released many weeks in advance and bascially do not sell out and if they do it's sold out in the last few days (and even one year they gave away a block of 20,000 at $5 per seat and still couldn't fill the stadium).... the AFL always sells out it GF - and it only relase tickets on the week fo the GF and even then access to tickets is tightly controlled and large shares of seating are directed through AFL club members who get the first rights to buy but usually only have a small chance of getting tickets.....the demand for AFL GF tickets is huge and scaplers can charge around $1000 for tickets....so NRL and AFL are completely different ....I can easily attend the NRL GFinal any year but to get an AFL GF ticket I basically have to be very persistant, camp out for days, know a AFL member or be prepared to pay big money to a scalper...i've known people to plan to travel to Melbourne for the GF only to miss out on ticket,,,,this can't happen with RLeague - it's very easy to get NRL GF tickets...

i worked with people like you who hated AFL and used to bag me ....one in particular used to go on with the normal 'aerial ping pong' and 'tight shorts' stuff but then one day he was at SFS to see a game of RLeague and after it finished the Swans were playing Collingwood right next door and he went in to the SCG members stand for free (he wasn't going to PAY to see AFL) just to have a look.....his comment to me after? - all he said was " mate it was electric - I won't be paying you out about AFL any more"

 it's your loss oikee if you won't even go to a game to see what it's like...you lose - you miss out...and by the way you did miss a very good game this w/end which was Lions v Collingwood     

Well everyone, welcome our newest member, AFL tragic dogged. A a quick question first, as you may know this is a rugby league forum, so why do you feel it necessary to come on here and bag out league? Seriously, if that’s all you are going to do then p*ss off back to your AFL forum and stop trying to feed us some of this sh*t you information.

 

SOO and NRL GF both sell out within an hour, I know from experience buying tickets, and if you think you can wait until the week before and buy a ticket, you sir are delusional. Now I’m not debating that AFL gets better crowds than league, now I think there are several reasons behind this; one, Victoria and QLD are both the most passionate sporting states in Australia, now Melbourne have, what 9, 10 AFL teams? So ofcourse melbourners are going to come out and support, yet in QLD 34,000 is a record and mind you a lot would be ex-vics, on the other hand all three QLD NRL teams average over 25,000, broncos are about 28,000 average, now also take into account that the size of the stadiums are; 30,000 – Dairy Farmers, 26,000 – Skilled Park, 52,000 – Suncorp. Now AFL have massive stadiums and let’s face it if AFL gets less than 30,000 to a game the atmosphere is sh*t.

 

Now onto your claims expansion will never work in VIC, WA and SA. Well i'd hate to burst your bubble but the day that people could whinge about melbourne and say they won't last are over and for you still to carry on with the same old sh*t today is pathetic. Melbourne get good crowds now and will get better come next year with their new stadium, like it or now. Aswell as this there are some great young victorians coming through the NRL system. Also you can deny it all you want but there still is a league presence in WA and WA has seen many quality NRL player come through the system. You can sit back and deny NRL will ever expand but it will happen. Pokies, come on, how do you think the warriors have survived so long? there are no pokies in NZ. Most of club's money comes from sponsorship, it is the same with AFL mate. Now i only know of 1 NRL club that ran at a loss last year and that was newcastle, minbd you alot contributed to that, like the termination of several contracts aswell as below-par crowds.

 

Now your stupidest comment of all, you say RL is not an international sport, now this leads me tobelieve you know sh*t all. RL is played in over 30 countries and is played by over 40 countries around the world, compare this to AFL and well... RL is very popular in england and PNG aswell as having good popularity in France, NZ, Ireland, Wales, Scotland, Fiji, Tonga, Samoa and many more. RL is also gaining popularity in countries like, South Africa, Germany, Lebanon, any many more. Now you call this a joke why? RL is probably the 5th or 6th most world wide sport behind soccer, RU, Hockey and basketball.

 

Now im going to conclude by saying; if all you want to do is run down RL and come up with some questionable reason why it won't work but ignore the reasons it will then find your way back to an AFL forum and get the fu*k off this RL forum. Seriously I would never get on a AFL forum and try and tell AFL fans why their game is inferior and then get in a "NO AFL IS BETTER!!!! I know you are, i said you are, but what am I?' argument. For the record, i have been to an AFL game and i have played AFL for a year, both of which i though were great, still though i believe league has so much on the game, i simply cannot get into AFL because i live in CQ so there is no live AFL action for 7 hours drive, now i have tried to get into it, i have watched games on TV but i simply find it boring on TV. Now this is my opinion and you hyave your's, but i don't go sharing my opinion why league is better than AFL all over AFL forums, i keep it to myself and fellow league fans and i think you should do the same. I mean the only reason you're rtunning league down is to try and see past reality and try to convince yourself that league can't and won't grow. Time will tell dogged and if you have your heart set on RL not suceeding in Victoria and around australia and the world, then you have a very rough future ahead of you.

"SOO and NRL GF both sell out within an hour, I know from experience buying tickets,..." - seriously who are you kidding - as I said one year the Daily Telegraph offered a block of 20,000 tickets at $5 per tichet to the NRL GF...and if I want to go this year I can easily go to the NRL GF no problems but not to the AFL GF....mate if you're going to lie about something make it something a little less obvious and difficult to disprove....you are wrong and you know it (or should know it)...

As for WA, Vic, SA expansion...these teams, even if they were viable, would have to be generating 3-4 million per annum (or more) over and above what a team like Manly generates becasue they don't have a Leagues club.....you just don' get it....RLeague is plugged in pokie revenue and will never be sustainable outside NSW/QLD....Storm survives on handouts as do Warriors - neither is sustainable - as soon as their backers tire of wasting money they are gone....non-NSW and non-QLD teams don't have the pokie revenue to funcion in the NRL....the NRL is literally floating on the miserable pokie losses of the NSW/QLD puclic...why do you thinking there is all this whining from NSW Leagues clubs about taxes?!

and why this desire fro RL to be classified as a 'world sport'////...very odd...most sports are not - NFL for exanple...even soccer the so called 'world game' is essentially a European sport with couple of decent South American competitions.....it is not the game of the most powerful world econony (USA), and it is not the game the most populous countries (Chine/India have over one third of the world's poulation and not a decent player let alone decent team amonst them)....mate if it gives you a hard on to talk about RL being an 'international sport' then go for it....but it's not ...and it wouldn't matter if it was...so what?!

did I harp on about game is better?///,,...maybe i did....my main point though is that talk of NRL expansion is ridiculous....don't take my word for it...see this article and others...the NRL will shrink not expand... 

 http://www.nrlnews.com/2008/02/29/nrl-future-expansion-and-viability-of-sydney-rugby-league-teams/

 

ahah i bet if i tried i could get tickets to the AFL GF 1 hour after they go on sale, i could for the NRL GF to but both would be piss poor, as would SOO tickets.

You say NRL clubs like the warriors and rabbitohs lose money, they are owned, you think russel and peter holmes-a-court would be running the joint if they were going to make a loss? same with the warriors owner. Like it or not mate the storm are here to stay, they've been around for a while now and pretty much every1 has given up on the "storm won't work" speech, except a few people by the looks...

 "gives you a hard on" what, are you 10? you know what, i would be happy if RL was the world game and you know deep down inside, whether you admit it or not you want AFL to be played all over the world and have a WC. RL is an international sport and no1 can deny that, so you can hold on to your "Rugby League is not popular, wah wah wah, i like AFL, wah wah wah, no1 likes Rugby league because i don't like it wah wah wah" attitude but do everyone a favour and take it to an AFL forum instead of inciting people in to petty arguments on a RL forum.

NRL expansion a joke? what about AFL expansion? west sydney? come on you don't even have enough support for the swans yet, maybe in 5,6 years. I'm willing to accept AFL expansion and not have a cry about it because i know it's reality, as i know NRL expansion is a reality and as much as you like to deny it won't work, it will happen.

Look i have nothing against your sport (AFL) i just find RL better, but the difference between me and you is i'm not parading on an AFL forum trying my darnest to persuade every1 that NRL is better, so why are you? Seriously this forum is better off without biased AFL fans on here starting petty little arguments to satisfy their ego, i mean out of all thousands, millions AFL supporters in australia, you are the first to come on here just to push and prod some1 into an argument.

Your right dogged, only in queensland do the SOO tickets sell out that fast, and if we had a 100 thousand stadium they would also sell out that fast, and we only have 1.5 million living here, they have 5 million in victoria to fill there stadium, like i have always said we dont go by crowd numbers for league, the t/v veiwers is where we excel.

Origin is the number 1 sporting event now in australia and will be the number 1 sporting event around the world within 10 years, and as for the point you are trying to make that expansion is rediculous, we could say that about A.F.L expansion, but i dont because i know it will work, not in any way as big as the A.F.L would like, because you only have 40 thousand stadium here in brisbane at the gabba, and you cant fill that, and the coast wont have a huge stadium because it just is not viable, as the west of sydney, no good having a big stadium with no one to fill it? League only needs 10 thousand to be a succuss and we acheive that quite nicely with our expansions. Good luck with your expansion.

Jim the stadium in melbourne will be ready by 2010, so 2 years and soccer and league and union will be televised out of melbourne with a nice new stadium to boot. Soccer and league have the advantage of using the same stadiums now like A.F.L and cricket.

Dogged all the games have there own merits, league in queensland is our sport and we do support soccer here as well, you might have seen a 40 thousand crowd to some roar games but we dont dwell about this, we support, then wait for league to start then you know who we support, like the veiwing for the game last weekend, 97 thousand watched a.f.l and 350 thousand league, with 50 thousand at the game.Of the 97 thousand, i would say 50 thousand would have been league fans, just looking to see the lions do well. We do support them, but not like we do support league. We had tipping comps where i worked for league and a.f.l , so we are not all one eyed.

you think i want AFL to have a World Cup?...not really....not at all...do the americans want a world cup for their baseball, basketball or football? - no they don't; in each case the maximum level of interest if for the domestic games....the canadians and their ice hockey? no they're happy....even the poms and their soccer really focus in fanatically on the domestic competition and their clubs.......look if you think that RL is/will be international then bully for you - I happened to think you're deluded if you hold that view but who cares anyway - after all it's a harmless delusion and if it makes you happy then fine.....

my point was about NRL expansion and why it will not happen outside NSW/QLD....millions was thrown at Perth Reds and Adelaide Rams...millions...and what happened?...both folded...both were unsustainable....neither had multi-million dollar 'grants' available to them from pokie revenue... you can want expansion all you like but it's just not sustainable and will not be happening....incidentally the AFL deliberately chooses not expand to Tasmania or Darwin for the same reason - even though both states follow aussie rules and provide some champion players to the AFL neither is a large enough financailly to sustain a team....Tasi in particular has been lobbying the AFL for years but the AFL will not start a team there - so in Tasi and NT they have the put up with their State/Territory football leagues and the occasional relocated game (Tasi gets three a year and Darwin 1 per season)...

the AFL move to Western Sydney and Gold Coast is a good one ....and I think will be their last one....after they do this they will be in a position of having a game in each mainland capital every week of the season....and they will have covered all the major populations in Australia...

RL is played by over 30 countries how can it not be international, if you are the one who is denying this then you are delusional. If 2 countries play it, it means its an international sport yet there are over 30! Don't get me wrong you can sit there all day and piss and moan about RL but what good is it going to do you on a RL forum, deny it all you like RL is international, im not saying it's the most popular sport in alot of countries, its the most popular sport in PNG, about even with AFL in australia (as much as you will whinge about this, time's have changed and if you don't think RL is as close to AFL as ever before if not even you're kidding yourself) and popular in UK, France and the PI nations, other than that it is relitively unknown in most countries but it is still played and making strides, if you take a look around you would know this.

Well we can sit online and argue all day and all night about RL expansion in WA, SA and VIC but in the end my opinion, nor yours will make a difference, it's not likely gallop is going to get on this forum read this and think oh, wow, this dogged fellow says it won't work wow, i better pull out now. In the end gallop is a smart man and will do what is right for the game, he has alreadt come out and said the NRL will target expansion to several areas in years to come, central coast, perth, wellington, sunny coast. Now you think Gallop would not have researched into a club in perth and work out whether it would be sustainable, ofcourse we has. So I'll sit back and watch the NRL expand over the years into Perth and other places (not adelaide or another VIC team for 10 years IMO) and i'll be happy, i'll also watch the AFL expand aswell, i won't be pissed off because AFL is invading League territory because i know it's reality maybe you need to wake up out of 1995 and accept NRL expansion as reality. Honestly AFL expansion doesn't bother me, the AFL went into sydney and brisbane a while ago now and what have the league crowds done since then? that's right, grow, on the other side of the coin NRL went into melboune over 10 years ago and what have the AFL corwds done since then? grow, as have league crowds.

yes gallop won't get on here and listen to my opinion,,,but at the same time he can't guarantee anything any more than you can ...or i can....just becasue gallop gives a team the nod doesn't mean it will work out and be profitable.....the Western Reds and Adelaide Rams folded - even before they were started I predicted both would be unfinancial and fold - and this happened.....and it would happen again for the same reasons - no pokies...and this is where Storm is headed - it loses millions every year and is thrown a lifeline by News Ltd....I don't think gallop is stupid - and I don't think he will make decision to go to perth....he might makes noises about doing so which is far easier than actually doing it...but i do think NRL may go to central coast if you call that expansion....all future teams will be within NSW/QLD....

 what we will see very soon (by 2012) is AFL games played in every mainland state every weekend.....WA, SA, NSW, QLD and Vic will have teams playing very single weekend.....and they'll also throw a few games in Tasi and one game in Darwin.....how on earth can you be so blinded and say the NRL is close to this level...will the NRL ever acheive this?....you need to do some research ....right now, the highest revenue team in the NRL is the Broncos and they don't even generate the revenue of the lowest revenue club in the AFL (Kangaroos - North Melbourne).....the AFL has over 550,000 paid members (i.e. season ticket holders) whereas the whole of the NRL's membership is not even a tenth of that - Collingwood has about the same number of members as the whole of the NRL combined....

I'm not the one who needs to wake up buddy....you're so off the mark it's beyond delusion..... 

 

   

Well i'm not going to add further comment on the WA, Vic expansion becuase i have my opinion why it would work and i'd only be repeating myself, as you have been with your "Rugby League won't survive without pokies" speech.

Well membership is somewhere where the AFL does have an advantage, they have pushed this well over many years and it is only now that league is starting take advantage and we are already seeing results with increased crowds numbers. Now even though you won't admit it NRL and AFL are about even as the number 1 football code in the country, RL is the most popular sport in NSW and QLD aswell as ACT, whilst AFL is the most popular sport in WA, SA and Victoria, now observe the following:

Populations

NSW - 6,817,100
QLD - 4,264,590
VIC - 5,188,100
SA - 1,581,400
WA - 2,105,800
NT - 215,000
ACT - 336,400
TAS - 492,700

So by my calculations league areas have a population of 11.5 million, whilst AFL heartland is 9.5 million.

So just because your the most popular in the most states doesn't mean AFL is tyhe is all and end all of australian sport.

Also on a recent fox sports poll that asked the question "what is the best Football code in australia?" the results were strongly in favour of league. I didn't catch the end results but after about a month league were about 35% whilst AFL was linbgering back at about 22%, union was about 5% and remarkably soccer was ahead of all. Take in to account 1000's of people voted so i'd say those results don't lie mate. As for me not researching and needing to wake up, well there's a little research for you right there and i will return that shot by saying that you need to pull your head out of the sand or wherever it is you're hiding it and face upto the facts; that your beloved AFL isn't by far and away the best sport in australia and that l;eague in Victoria is here to stay and look out WA and SA in the future. So you can hold onto your "we're the best because we play in more places" attitude but it isn't going to stop the jugernaut that is league, nor will any of my whinging stop the juggernaut that is AFL (not that would want it to). Nothing wrong with a bit of competition and you need to learn that dogged.

Ahhhhh, so an AFL troll has come on to the forum... I was expecting the odd Union fan, but they have been pretty good... this is new. :|

Dogged, everything I read about AFL smells of the ARU's first tenure with O'Niell, Dimetriou or who ever is running your game will Kill the sport as I see it. O'Niell waged a campaing of trying to kill League and failed and set the seeds for the ARU's dire straits and Dimitreou is doing the same. League is a percieved threat to the AFL, Union and Soccer, its why everyone are having a go at it where they can, they know what its doing. Even the EPL and RFU in england can't kill the sport, its making massive inroads in its heartland and southern france as well. AFL's expansion imoves are a knee jerk reaction to what they see is a demise in their own backyards. Now Gallop has been smart... Gallop never said that He will expand teams now into WA or wherever... all he said is that they want to target a new fan base in WA... this may mean more live games the off game or RL in Perth... however the fact that the Western Reds ARE back playing semi pro comps in the JB cup... something that they set up after becoming finacially viable and they want to expand themselves into RL, its nothing Gallop and the NRL are doing, its a natural growth from a club that was re-started from scratch. I bet next time that the YV deals are renegotiatted AFL will not have anywhere near as large cut as it did this time, they managed to bluff their way to gettin the 70 million... News will not make that same mistake again... not when they have the opportunity with league to expand into new European and US markets with RL... actually the AMNRL does have weekly games televised in the states already.

The Rams and Reds folded only because they were victims of the Super League war, they were actually breaking eaven and had some awesome corwds, reds well within the 15-20,000 mark a week... which for RL is damn good. I don;t deny that AFL crowds are great, RL woudl with to have that agin like in the hey days of the 50's when St george and Souths would pull in 60-70,000 to a game (when the SCG could hold that many :) ) The thing is AFL is so bad to watch on TV the crowds need to go to the ground to watch the game. RL is a perfect sport made to watch live and in TV... the rating prove this.

Despite what people like to bang on about, in my opinion AFL is not in that great a situation... long term anyway... as I see it. I see tham a bit like the borrowers from subprime lenders. It all looks splendid now they got all this money from News... which AFAC makes them dependent on News since if that money was not there the massive grants going into teams would not be there to prop them up as well... but I really do not feel they are paying back as much as news likes, and next re-negotiation the cut will be much smaller, its why I think the AFL are so desperate to expand because they have basically got to the end of where they can and are now grasping at thin air. The reality is that AFL in Western Sydney is not popular, its 25-30,000 odd the swans get comes from only a small eatsern suburbs and central city area, and overlaps generally with 2-3 other RL teams, Namely, Manly, Eatas and Souths, when the swans were up in their hey day a few years ago was mainly due to many south supporters going when they were kicked out, I remember being at swans game (yes I have been to a few games myself) and saw red and green everywhere. Now things are looking better there and the fans are coming back to RL.

AFL would do well, to sit back and cast an unbiased look at what has happened with the NRL and ARU war (yes there was one, if we like to think it or not) and what ca happen if there is pre-mature "expansion" and a vicious attack on another code. ARU paid dealy for this, being up from a 40 million suplus to a 8.5 million deficite in 4 years, simply because they thought they had money and could buys support and loyalty and expand without any of the bases... and they are in trouble because of it... RL weathered the storm, consolidated resisted the temptation to counter the Force expansion (which actually could be really beneficial if it was done properly) starightaway, only when the time was right and the player base was there to cover it did they expand. Gallop will not do this again untill the same situation arises. If its WA, NZ, QLD or anywhere else, he will do it on good solid terms, not just jumping up on a whim and saying OK we expand here.

Now, all sports are international, if we like it or not, AFL does have small followings in a few other countries, most notably PNG, NZ and USA... thus its international, Gridiron also is international, many European countries play it as well. Ice hokey, baseball do have world cups, and massive ones at that, I watched Icehokey world championships last year on TV... its a big world wide sport. Just like RL is a world wide sports, has what I call big followings in about 6 countries, Aus England, France, PNG, NZ and Russia (yep they make profits from RL in Russia, good crowds too). Other countries have medium follwings USA, PI's and South Africa most notable for me, The rest have small but very dedicated folloings and am happy that I have seen and will see such a massive veriety of countries play. All up there are close to 50 countries that play RL in some capacity... and if AFL and Union want to go and bleat on about RL "not" and international sport, then they are not either.

Anotehr thing that got me thinking the other day, AFL is played in WA, SA, Vic, NSW and QLD, so 5 states/territories/provinces. The NRL, QLD, NSW, VIC, ACT and NZ also 5 states/provinces/territories, so AFAC its a fairly level footing and the fact that there is no AFL team in the National capital is a bit of a joke too.

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